I just finished going through all of my initial reading and reacting to your post, Xero. I'm overwhelmed with amazement and excitement, and feel overloaded with information.
Your focus on the feature comparisons, to combine them with the micro-payments, is genius (imo). I honestly wish I'd started writing this on Honest.cash instead of on Yours.org, as the confusion between audience type - whether you're talking directly to me or to people in general on any of the sites - threw and is throwing me for a loop.
You already did what I thought I was going to do first -- you cross-posted your content to both Cent and Honest -- but you were speaking to me. That's bizarre and fascinating. I'm not saying I don't like it. I do. It just adds to the trippy nature of the whole thing.
I'm doing the same thing right here right now, although since Yours... What in the world? I copied, "This post is a reply to Xerographica on Honest.cash.
I'm writing it on Yours.org first because I can't first write it on Honest or Cent and then transfer it to Yours.org. Posting it to all three maximizes interactivity and exploration of the formats, as well as potential earnings. That's why to post on all three, starting with Yours, for posts that aren't quick responses (like the ones I do on honest.cash)." to Honest, reintroduced the paragraph cut, and pasted it to Cent. It pasted properly without a hitch. Then I pasted it to Yours. It pasted properly without a hitch. I don't know what to make of that. I'm confused.
You know what, I'm going to relish in that confusion - and all the warts of my initial glance and looking at your content that I did, and post this to all three sites. Then I'll write a followup that I'll write as a response, perhaps, and perhaps put it on Honest.cash. I don't know. I immensely appreciate your depth of thought that you've put to this, Xero. Actually, I've got a better idea: I'll post this to Yours and link to my followup response to you on Honest.cash. That way I won't have to do what looks like 50 paragraph formatting re-dos, and that one guy on Cent won't be a bug up my butt. (I know, I know, don't mind the knuckleheads, but it's not just that. 50 motherfucking paragraph redos is annoying too.)
So, without further ago, my uneducated first glance:
This post is a reply to Xerographica on Honest.cash.
I'm writing it on Yours.org first because I can't first write it on Honest or Cent and then transfer it to Yours.org. Posting it to all three maximizes interactivity and exploration of the formats, as well as potential earnings. That's why to post on all three, starting with Yours, for posts that aren't quick responses (like the ones I do on honest.cash).
You cannot reply to comments on Yours, but you can on Honest. You can reply to comments on Cent, but I think the format is confusing and ugly. I keep seeing comments that seem to be part of the post (like this "Wat"), but are comments, and I don't know what to make of that.
So, I most prefer Honest.cash. However, there are two things that Yours currently has over Honest: 1. YouTube embedding. Once Honest has that, I'll have little reason to use Yours, except for the additional audience reach... especially to incentivize them to join Honest ;) 2. The voting structure. I've done my share of complaining about the haphazard wallet system on Honest, but I fully expect it to get better over time. Yours has a robust voting structure that very closely parallels what Honest is making, and though I think memo has the best one (totally customizable), it does not have long-form writing yet, so it's in its own Twitterized category.
I agree with you, Xero, to "ignore the knuckleheads"; I said pretty much the same to Ed.
Before I read through and respond to "this post[,]" I want to comment on the rest of that sentence: "we can really benefit from being able to test the different features on that website and this one. I love how willing you are to try different platforms!"
I completely agree. The more awareness we, users, as well as the developers, have, of each of the platforms, the more examples, variations, and experimentation can be done, speeding up innovation, and creating incentives to further and faster improve to retain a/the user base: variety and competition is the spice of life.
That's the base idea as to why I'm so willing to try new platforms. The other is that I have my own idea as to what kind of social network I'd like to have and use, which for a while I called "Social Wiki", where you have the same deep linking as Wikipedia, with the social features of facebook. These new social networks put that onto an entirely different level that I wasn't expecting - via the integration of peer-to-peer micro-payments. Our social and financial world is going through an unprecedented (and sorely needed) complete revolution and evolution of thought, design, and style of interaction - they're integrating together!
And that's the other part. We have so many deep and pressing issues, that if we DON'T innovate as fast as we can, things aren't looking too good socially, or financially, globally.
So, we have two opposite and equal pressures pointing in the same direction.
The ideal and dream we're (I'm) aiming for is permissionless open-source hardware and software 3D-printed (as part of or an add-on to) self-recyclable tablet-phone to create new hardward/software configurations that you can download and reconfigured on a Skycoin-like (or perhaps that's the Skycoin phone, dunno) peer-to-peer internet, that is decentralized, cannot be controlled or censored, global "torrent"ing Web 3.0 (or whatever number) interface, where we're not just talking about the details of how the economic code of which Bitcoin/crypto variation we're using, but also how the physical components relate to the mix. It shouldn't be just Elon Musk talking these details. (That's not the specific video I'm thinking about, but I hope you get my meaning.) It shouldn't just be the Venus Project clique.
Onto the article: Wow! Quadratic voting looks like a brilliant idea!
One note about Medium (where Vitalik posted) - you have to sign up via fb or google. No. Just no. I used to not really care about that stuff, and now, well... I don't think I need to explain why I care very much, so check out this playlist if you really want to know. Medium doesn't even offer signing up by email. I would if they did.
"The other has focused on designing rules of the economic and political games of mainstream society, aiming to both break up and reduce the need for concentrated centralized authority — what he calls “Radical Markets”. Traditional private property tends to create and perpetuate inequality of power, monopolizing resources in a few hands rather than deploying them to their best uses. A truer, radical free market would create greater competition and equality by a greater use of auctions and commonly owned property. One-person-one-vote democracy tends to oppress minorities, who then seek protection from the judicial system or international authorities, thus subverting democracy. A more creative democratic forms that give power to minorities to protect their own most deeply valued interests can restore the legitimacy of government."
"However, QV also poses important technical and conceptual challenges to existing crypto-currency communities. In particular, QV relies heavily on the notion of verifiable, separate human identities, because a community member could multiply her effective influence dramatically by misrepresenting herself as multiple individuals (sockpuppets). The frequent use of anonymity and pseudonymity in crypto-currency communities is in tension with the need for such clearly-delineated identities, though also naturally gives rise to some of the inegalitarian wealth and power dynamics these communities hoped to avoid."
Good point.
"people have plenty of opportunities to impose negative externalities on each other even without violence or fraud (eg. I buy a [fancier suit | well-designed website | college degree], I look more respectable and people pay more attention to me, but attention is zero-sum so people pay less attention to you….), and they peek into the structure of mechanisms in cases where the mathematical proofs of their optimality implicitly assume no one does (eg. people getting upset when they learn that they are getting lower salaries than their coworkers). A grand economic ideology that seeks to be useful in guiding society should have some conception of how the economics interacts with all of these other factors. In the case of radical markets ideas, how does it? Do they interfere, can we sidestep most of the issues by making voting/contribution private and non-provable"
I'd want the option to have it be either public or private at my discretion.
OMG there's SO much about taxation in that article.
"Polypolitanism" - I had the same issue. Interesting. In looking for more of her work to see if I might find more on it, she's written some romance novels involving feminism and The Lost Boys. And, apparently, another Amazon profile as well.
WOW: "Allen has a personal stake in Michael’s story. She’s his first cousin, though the distance between her opportunity horizons and his could be measured in light years."
She has a curious contrast of innovation with business as usual, exemplified with this article about "How should we deal with wrongdoing? And you can't say prison". She has quite a bit to say about The Declaration Of Independence.
So, off of that tangent and back to Glen.
As I'm reading the article and seeing how expansive what I've written is getting, having testing putting some of it on Cent and Honest earlier, I'm needing to revise what I was originally saying regarding starting with Yours and then copy-pasting it to Cent and Honest.
While the links do copy over, I currently have to manually redo the paragraph spacing, which is something of a pain in the butt. I'm debating with myself if that's reason to make a condensed version of this content for Honest and Cent, or if I want to do the effort only for Honest, and present a condensed form on Cent; however, I don't want to be incentivizing people going from Honest to Yours. I'd rather have people going from Yours and Cent to Honest.
Perhaps what would be best would be for me to first write the articles on Honest, and then copy them to notepad, to them put a condensed version of them on Yours and Cent, and if you want the full features of the articles, to go to Honest. I've changed the title to reflect this.
I didn't see much of interest in the rest of the article, so I'm back to your voting one. I agree with you about testing things out, such as with the dog show. It sounds interesting.
So, I got on a long browsing tangent from the Vox payless related article at the bottom, about Cleopatra, but this article has an cool description of how her beauty actually wasn't her biggest asset. But, I want to get back to the main article, so I'm closing those. And bookmarking this one to listen to later.
I'm having trouble figuring out what my response would be, as this type of voting concept is new to my and I haven't put any thought (besides this immediate article) to it yet.
The main thing I could comment on, would be regarding, "Maybe it will help to borrow the wording from the second article… the proof of dog quality is in the owning, which can take years to determine. Owning a rottweiler puppy isn’t the same thing as owning a full grown rottweiler.
If you’re going to get a dog then naturally before you do so you should be able to easily tap into society’s vast dog experience and knowledge. Therefore… democracy?"
Namely, the issue of slavery in regard to owning dogs. However, that's a side-issue to the basic idea being presented. A helpful way to sidestep this so we're not on that kind of tangent would be to talk of, for instance, variations of Android or iPhone variations.
So, to get to the crux of the issue - "therefore, democracy?" No. Each person is not being told which iPhone/Android they'll get via collective decision-making. Instead, they are tapping in to collective awareness with the voting system to better decide what might be the best fit for them. A larger sampling and experience pool. It is voluntary.
"In order to really answer this question, we have to figure out which animal is more loved by society. Love is a function of sacrifice…"
This is getting bizarre. Some people like cats. Some people like dogs. Why would you force a "better" in this regard? Neither is "better". Love is a function of sacrifice? Oh spare me the poetic bullshit.
"Here’s another age-old question… is Cent or Honest Cash (HC) better? It’s age-old in terms of the internet. Time flies so much faster here."
Um, no. Just no. I prefer Honest.Cash. Others prefer Cent. There are good reasons for both, depending on your preferences. mael, for example, clearly prefers Cent.
"What type of relationship should Cent and HC have? Maybe the most obvious answer is that their relationship should be purely competitive. Generally speaking, competition among producers is beneficial to consumers." lol I said nearly the same thing above.
Wow. That "How Not To Die" article is AWESOME.
Wow. I didn't realize how utterly brilliant that concept is: "After joining Cent, AnarchoVegan posted four suggestions for HC, one of which was for in-browser notifications. Cent has this, which I’m sure that he saw and appreciated.
The question is… just how important is this feature to AnarchoVegan? Does it matter? Well yeah, of course it matters. It matters how important this feature is to each and every member of HC.
One issue is that AnarchoVegan bundled his suggestions together. If we spend our money on his post, it won’t be clear which suggestions the money is for, which is a problem. In order to see the social importance of suggestions, they must be unbundled.
Another issue is that, if AnarchoVegan does unbundle his suggestions, he won’t be able to spend his money on them. This is a huge problem… and right now both HC and Cent have it.
If Maelstrohmblack creates a post on HC that requests the implementation of bounties (like on Cent), then he should be able to spend as much money as he wants on his post. Naturally the money shouldn’t go into his wallet, it should go into HC’s wallet.
So is he going to create such a post? If so, how much money would he spend on it? How much money would AnarchoVegan spend on it? How much money would I spend on it?"
Yes, I do appreciate the notification feature on Cent. However, since Honest has email notifications enabled (although annoying), I can use those as a relay, currently. It's not what I'd prefer, but it works. I was at first confused by your statement of my "bundling" - I put number in front of them to designate their importance -- being able to delete posts being the biggest feature I want. (Then again, I'm starting to reconsider; I think notifications would be a better one first now.)
"I only just recently learned about Yours.org and it seems to be a market website, but it looks like it really sucks.  There's content on its homepage, which is a good thing, but it's basically people begging for money.  By default the content is sorted by "Hot".  Not sure what that means but the default sorting should be "Top"."
Hey, what was that you said earlier about not letting the dickheads get you down? What Yours got right is that the voting and payment system is functional and smooth. The Honest.cash system is glitchy, by my experience, so far, though it should improve.
"If lots of people are clicking the 25 cent button very many times, it makes sense to add a 50 cent button.  If they also click that button very many times, then it makes sense to add a $1 dollar button.  
Or, maybe it makes more sense for people to simply enter the amount that they want to spend, like how it works on Cent."
And memo.cash.


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Interesting thoughts! You are a curious early adopter. :) I hear you on the paragraph formatting issue.
   4mo ago
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I agree that "reply to comments" is a basic feature that is missing here. However, the rest of the functionality is fine and there is not enough time in the/my day for glitchy things that don't work. I'd like to try out Keyport.tv soon. ;)
   4mo ago
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I agree, Satoshi Doodles. ^_^
   4mo ago